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. >> that's right, we're seeing a flurry of activity and communication between these nato members, including the u.s. and both russia and ukraine with the kritish prime minister expected to visit kyiv. as you mentioned, planning to speak with the russian foreign minister. they had a chance to speak with vladimir putin, the russian leader today. the focus from the u.s. has been publicly on this diplomatic possibility because of the concerns they have about playing into president putin's hands with some of the concerns that are very out front right now about the prospect of an imminent encouragement. listen to what president biden had to say a little while ago at the white house. >> we continue to urge diplomacy as the best way forward, but with russia's continuing its build up of forces around ukraine, we are ready no matter what happens. >> so you hear the white house and president biden trying to walk this fine line because behind the scenes as we have reported, they are making very clear to the ukrainian counterparts what could happen and what they need to be ready for. we also saw at the
. >> that's right, we're seeing a flurry of activity and communication between these nato members, including the u.s. and both russia and ukraine with the kritish prime minister expected to visit kyiv. as you mentioned, planning to speak with the russian foreign minister. they had a chance to speak with vladimir putin, the russian leader today. the focus from the u.s. has been publicly on this diplomatic possibility because of the concerns they have about playing into president putin's...
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is that going to be the deterrent for russia or the nato -- >> we can threaten and detour as much as we want, and this is already part of putin's calculations. he already knows what we are capable of and what we are not and what is at stake for him and what is not. he has factored that in, we just don't know how he factored that in and whether it's something that would change the calculous. the things we could do are pretty extraordinary if we choose to put that in, and the sanctions in 2014 were relatively modest. but what they can do is cut russia off, international banking system and go after putin's personal funds which are believed to be in the billions squared away around various places around the globe, and energy could hurt russia, and they could hurt our allies, and 40% of europe's natural gas come from russia, and if we were to impose an energy boycott on him that would have an impact on people that we are friends with as well, and that's a problem for biden and for them keeping the alliance together. the mother of all sanctions is important. >> if we impose sanctions on th
is that going to be the deterrent for russia or the nato -- >> we can threaten and detour as much as we want, and this is already part of putin's calculations. he already knows what we are capable of and what we are not and what is at stake for him and what is not. he has factored that in, we just don't know how he factored that in and whether it's something that would change the calculous. the things we could do are pretty extraordinary if we choose to put that in, and the sanctions in...
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conference and in the days, weeks, months before it, he didn't have an awful lot to say about ukraine, about nato, about the west crossing russia's red line. he hasn't engaged on any of this. putin is leaving himself a lot of breathing room. we're seeing officials fill the void with developments of the talking points that existed going into this. it a big guessing game now and really no one here has any idea where he might take we are seeing some calls from corner's from russia's professional community saying maybe now is the time to go for this and push him on it. the population doesn't really seem ready for that. >> matt bod neuron a snowy night in moscow. thank you. >>> joining me is a democrat from new jersey that just met with officials in kyiv. do you think anything of substance of substance came out of the meeting with the security council today? >> oh, congressman, do we have you? all right. do we still have matt in moscow? >> i'm here. >> hey, matt, from your perch in moscow, i am wondering what you make of the difference in the way that this crisis is being described by president saw le
conference and in the days, weeks, months before it, he didn't have an awful lot to say about ukraine, about nato, about the west crossing russia's red line. he hasn't engaged on any of this. putin is leaving himself a lot of breathing room. we're seeing officials fill the void with developments of the talking points that existed going into this. it a big guessing game now and really no one here has any idea where he might take we are seeing some calls from corner's from russia's professional...
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completely pull back and bar ukraine from ever becoming part of nato. so where do you see some path for diplomacy? >> well, andrea, the reality is that the only way out remains a shift in the diplomatic conversations from exchange from nato and the open door policy to more specific discussions about the contested areas in eastern ukraine where russian separatists have been active, to questions around european security writ large, whether there can be greater transparency, greater arms control reduced to the tensions between the united states and nato and russia. thus far we have seen little interest from the russian side in that kind of diplomacy. today, look, it's not new, andrea, and i was struck in the later obama years when russia shifted to a posture at the u.n. being totally comfortable outright lying, shifting the conversation to what aboutism that they blame all the problems on the united states. that's a diplomatic attack they used to prop began diaz at home, and to appeal at home, and to a global audience, the information the united states and
completely pull back and bar ukraine from ever becoming part of nato. so where do you see some path for diplomacy? >> well, andrea, the reality is that the only way out remains a shift in the diplomatic conversations from exchange from nato and the open door policy to more specific discussions about the contested areas in eastern ukraine where russian separatists have been active, to questions around european security writ large, whether there can be greater transparency, greater arms...
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narrative threats that they are possibly spinning, trying to contain russia and create a pretext for nato to make moves on russia. more fundamentally it all comes back to the idea that the west is hyping up zelensky. russians are not being told the truth entirely about their troops. they're aware there's movement going on and there's a general sense out. again, we all take this for granted but the state has incredible control over narratives here, over the media here. there's just burnout. people are not sitting there fact checking and they're not all that interested in the fine details. the west is sending troops to the echelon alliance and ukraine is getting more weapons and russia is defensive. putin is playing a game. war is not possible. we're seeing a lot of that right now. >> a snowy moscow. matt, thank you. meanwhile, back here today is the deadline in texas to get in applications to vote by mail ahead of the upcoming primary elections. because of the state's new requirements, many applications are apparently be rejected and that includes a 92-year-old world war ii veteran who sai
narrative threats that they are possibly spinning, trying to contain russia and create a pretext for nato to make moves on russia. more fundamentally it all comes back to the idea that the west is hyping up zelensky. russians are not being told the truth entirely about their troops. they're aware there's movement going on and there's a general sense out. again, we all take this for granted but the state has incredible control over narratives here, over the media here. there's just burnout....
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and nato delivered written responses to russia's security demands. on thursday, the house and senate will receive classified briefings on the situation. as democrats and republicans on the senate foreign relations committee say they're close to a deal on what is being called the mother of all sanctions against russia. committee chair bob menendez described what would be in the package. >> it's too include a variety of elements. massive sanctions against the most significant russian banks, crippling to their economy, meaningful in terms of consequences to the average and those accounts and pensions. more lethal assistance to ukraine. these are sanctions beyond any that we have ever levied before. >> right. >> with me now to talk about this, nbc news correspondent, erin mclaughlin in kyiv, ukraine, and nbc news senior white house correspondent, kelly o'donnell. >> kelly, the biden administration has threatened severe economic consequences, if russia invades. senator menendez also said that some of these sanctions could be imposed before any russian act
and nato delivered written responses to russia's security demands. on thursday, the house and senate will receive classified briefings on the situation. as democrats and republicans on the senate foreign relations committee say they're close to a deal on what is being called the mother of all sanctions against russia. committee chair bob menendez described what would be in the package. >> it's too include a variety of elements. massive sanctions against the most significant russian banks,...
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and nato and the transatlantic relationship but even the unity we have in congress. so this delegation was a bipartisan delegation, and we were all very unified as we went before the international community as americans promoting democracy. >> i want to ask you about potential sanctions and share a bit of what "the new york times" wrote about it where they say no nation has ever tried to enact broad sanctions against such large financial institutions and on an economy the size of russia's and the swift and severe response that the u.s. has promised could roil major economies particularly those in europe and even threaten the stability of the global financial system. what in your mind does the mother of all sanctions look like? and don't we run the risk that we could be crushing russians, we could be crushing other countries, but it won't impact putin? he is a multisystem inflammatory syndrome -- multimultibillionaire. >> it will impact putin because what we're talking about is russian sanctions against russia and the russian people. even if as we heard the russians c
and nato and the transatlantic relationship but even the unity we have in congress. so this delegation was a bipartisan delegation, and we were all very unified as we went before the international community as americans promoting democracy. >> i want to ask you about potential sanctions and share a bit of what "the new york times" wrote about it where they say no nation has ever tried to enact broad sanctions against such large financial institutions and on an economy the size...
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you have countries like finland that are talking about a need to get into nato, to expand nato. that's the last thing in the world this guy wants. >> in terms of russia's security interests, it is hard to imagine a scenario that over the longer term, five to ten years, would be more counterproductive. they're going to be economically weaker. they're going to be politically weaker. i can only think, joe, that he really does believe this kind of mystical idea about russia and ukraine. he wrote an essay about it last summer. he goes on for 5,000 words. it is the strangest things. leaders don't write 5,000 word essay from the soul about the oneness of the two peoples. he must believe it. he has rolled the dice big-time for russia. the chances he will get a victory out of this i think shrink, as you said, day by day. >>> all right. we will be following this story and the developments as they come. moving now to a number of states across the country where there is an effort by many republican-led legislatures to limit the ability to teach the history of discrimination in this country.
you have countries like finland that are talking about a need to get into nato, to expand nato. that's the last thing in the world this guy wants. >> in terms of russia's security interests, it is hard to imagine a scenario that over the longer term, five to ten years, would be more counterproductive. they're going to be economically weaker. they're going to be politically weaker. i can only think, joe, that he really does believe this kind of mystical idea about russia and ukraine. he...
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you can ask anybody in nato or anybody in the western defense establishment, can you really occupy a country with 100,000 forces against that kind of resistance, and the answer is. no they're skeptical about the worst case scenario being floated. likelier scenarios that i've heard, a minimal incursion or reinvasion in the don b as region which is already occupied, to bloody ukraine's noise and take out defensive infrastructure and then wait and see the political ramifications in kyiv. right? this is the so-called georgia scenario. you invade but you don't do regime change by military means. you try to put enough pressure and compel the regime to crumble or to cave and make concessions. that's the likeliest scenario. the worst case scenario coming from ukraine officials is a kosovo style scenario. so a constant aerial bombardment. taking out defensive infrastructure all over the country with the threat of a land incursion, also to effectuate a regime change outcome. >> that's extraordinarily good detail and perspective there about the numbers game. and what russia may outline is certa
you can ask anybody in nato or anybody in the western defense establishment, can you really occupy a country with 100,000 forces against that kind of resistance, and the answer is. no they're skeptical about the worst case scenario being floated. likelier scenarios that i've heard, a minimal incursion or reinvasion in the don b as region which is already occupied, to bloody ukraine's noise and take out defensive infrastructure and then wait and see the political ramifications in kyiv. right?...
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why don't you just say he wouldn't join nato? i talked to officials over the weekend and they won't touch that, at least not publicly. but the other question is, would it be enough? >> that's an interesting question that i don't have time to deal with here. >>> that's all we have for today. thank you for watching. >>> next week as the olympics get underway, i'm not going to jinx the bengals or the chiefs by saying go to either one of them. the bills and the packers are out. either way, enjoy today's games. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪♪ ♪ it's sunday, it's "meet the >>> president biden of says he plans to send troops to eastern europe. even as the president of ukraine plays down the threat of a russian invasion. the question is, how soon could american forces be deployed? >>> plus, a stunning admission from donald trump as he puts in writing that he wanted mike pence to quote overturn the election. the question is, are prosecutors listening? >>> and a surprising super bowl 56 is set. the cincinnati bengals versus
why don't you just say he wouldn't join nato? i talked to officials over the weekend and they won't touch that, at least not publicly. but the other question is, would it be enough? >> that's an interesting question that i don't have time to deal with here. >>> that's all we have for today. thank you for watching. >>> next week as the olympics get underway, i'm not going to jinx the bengals or the chiefs by saying go to either one of them. the bills and the packers are...
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and its nato allies? >> so, i think their general approach to this disinformation is just trying to blunt the zone. that's what a lot of disinformation scholars call. it they have the resources both monetary and humid to really throw a lot of falsehoods into our never ending information cycle. and so what we have seen in this research, i'm a senior adviser to the center of resilience which pump that this information. we have seen a 50% uptake in how much disinformation about ukrainian aggression is being spread on russia state media channels. and just as a reminder for viewers, as you beautifully laid out, ukraine is not the aggressor in this conflict. they are the ones that had our territory forcibly taken from them by the russian government. so, any talk of ukrainian aggression is just so farfetched. it's ukraine trying to defend its own sovereignty. again, we've seen that almost double in the past couple of weeks compared to the beginning of last year. >> you, know the funny thing is, you know that you
and its nato allies? >> so, i think their general approach to this disinformation is just trying to blunt the zone. that's what a lot of disinformation scholars call. it they have the resources both monetary and humid to really throw a lot of falsehoods into our never ending information cycle. and so what we have seen in this research, i'm a senior adviser to the center of resilience which pump that this information. we have seen a 50% uptake in how much disinformation about ukrainian...
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aspirations, they have been instituting a lot of nato rules and regulations that some nato members don't institute. so they are not entirely helpless in the face of russia but of course would be overwhelmed by russian forces, especially from the air. >> so in a "new york times" op-ed this week, fiona hill says that putin senses american weakness and wants to take advantage. unlike president biden, mr. putin doesn't have to worry about midterm elections or pushback from his own party. he has no concerns about bad press or poll ratings. he isn't part of a political party and has crushed the russian opposition. is that strictly 100% true? he does care about russian public opinion, doesn't he? or at least he will if russian troops start dying in big numbers. he cares about how he looks globally to the chinese at least. >> i think it's more true than not true. i think i tend to agree with dr. hill here. i think that putin does care about public opinion, but he cares about public opinion in the sense that he is especially concerned with how he's going to sort of raise his popularity and mobili
aspirations, they have been instituting a lot of nato rules and regulations that some nato members don't institute. so they are not entirely helpless in the face of russia but of course would be overwhelmed by russian forces, especially from the air. >> so in a "new york times" op-ed this week, fiona hill says that putin senses american weakness and wants to take advantage. unlike president biden, mr. putin doesn't have to worry about midterm elections or pushback from his own...
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sending troops to the region to help nato members is underscoring ukraine is not a member of nato and cannot count on protection from the west. and so ukraine is -- i think that those pictures of civil defense training are somewhat hyperbolic in the sense that, yes, that's happening. ukraine also has a military that has been in combat for the last eight years, that is probably more battle ready than many military forces in the world because it's had practice and also because of ukraine's nato aspirations, they have been instituting a lot of nato rules and regulations that some nato members don't institute. so they are not entirely helpless in the face of russia but of course would be overwhelmed by russian forces, especially from the air. >> so in a "new york times" op-ed this week, fiona hill says that putin senses american weakness and wants to take advantage. unlike president biden, mr. putin doesn't have to worry about midterm elections or pushback from his own party. he has no concerns about bad press or poll ratings. he isn't part of a political party and has crushed the russian
sending troops to the region to help nato members is underscoring ukraine is not a member of nato and cannot count on protection from the west. and so ukraine is -- i think that those pictures of civil defense training are somewhat hyperbolic in the sense that, yes, that's happening. ukraine also has a military that has been in combat for the last eight years, that is probably more battle ready than many military forces in the world because it's had practice and also because of ukraine's nato...
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the president is getting new support on russia from nato ally boris johnson. the uk prime minister is offering to step up troop deployment and widen the range of proposed sanctions on russia if russian president vladimir putin does not stop his threatened invasion of ukraine. nbc's erin mclaughlin is on the ground and joining us. good to see you. a russian invasion, not a foregone conclusion at this point. how are leaders there feeling about reaching a diplomatic solution at this point? >> yeah, well, ukrainian leaders are certainly pushing for a diplomatic solution today, calling out russia, the ukrainian foreign minister in a tweet saying, quote, if russian officials are serious when they say they don't want any war, russia must continue diplomatic engagement and pull back military forces it amassed along ukraine's borders and in temporarily occupied borders of ukraine, diplomacy is the only responsible way. that reference in that tweet to a, quote, new war, marks a slight shift in tone from what we have been hearing of late from ukrainian officials who have
the president is getting new support on russia from nato ally boris johnson. the uk prime minister is offering to step up troop deployment and widen the range of proposed sanctions on russia if russian president vladimir putin does not stop his threatened invasion of ukraine. nbc's erin mclaughlin is on the ground and joining us. good to see you. a russian invasion, not a foregone conclusion at this point. how are leaders there feeling about reaching a diplomatic solution at this point?...
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and whether germany joins up with the rest of nato and nato stands unified in the economic sanctions that the west and president biden is looking to put, impose on russia, that remains to be seen. those are both -- they're economic. when you start talking about troop deployments, both boris johnson and joe biden and nato, they're talking about troop deployments to eastern europe. they're not talking about sending troops to fight russian troops in ukraine. so that's an important distinction to make. i was talking last week with somebody at the pentagon who said quite frankly, we don't believe that these troop deployments to eastern europe are going to stop vladimir putin from invading ukraine. what they will do, though, is draw the line, saying you can't go any further because if you start looking at poland or the baltics, these are nato allies and you would have a fight, a real hot fight, combat fight with nato on your hands. >> let me ask you this, helene, because i have been seeing a lot of analysis about the crippling economic sanctions, how the russian people don't necessarily ag
and whether germany joins up with the rest of nato and nato stands unified in the economic sanctions that the west and president biden is looking to put, impose on russia, that remains to be seen. those are both -- they're economic. when you start talking about troop deployments, both boris johnson and joe biden and nato, they're talking about troop deployments to eastern europe. they're not talking about sending troops to fight russian troops in ukraine. so that's an important distinction to...
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if he decides that the future membership if there's to be one in nato for ukraine and the question of russian occupation of ukraine are two things to put on the table, i think we may move toward a solution to this and i hope we do soon. >> plus, a glowing recommendation of a potential contender for president biden's supreme court pick. this from a republican senator. >> i can't think of a better person for president biden to consider for the supreme court than michelle childs. she has wide support in her state. she's considered to be a fair minded, highly gifted jurist. she's highly qualified. she's a good character and we'll see how she does if she's nominated, but i cannot say anything bad about michelle childs. she is an awesome person. >> good to hear, lindsey graham. also new polling from abc news shows that americans are giving the president low marks on his handle of gun violence and crime. two issues the president is expected to speak on this week when he travels to new york city and meeting with the mayor. the trim comes amid a troubling rise in gun crimes across several u.s.
if he decides that the future membership if there's to be one in nato for ukraine and the question of russian occupation of ukraine are two things to put on the table, i think we may move toward a solution to this and i hope we do soon. >> plus, a glowing recommendation of a potential contender for president biden's supreme court pick. this from a republican senator. >> i can't think of a better person for president biden to consider for the supreme court than michelle childs. she...
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the united states and nato must not play into this strategy. are you at all concerned, sir, that the biden administration's current strategy could further provoke putin? >> absolutely not. i work very closely with congresswoman jayapal and congresswoman lee. i don't agree with them here. the only person provoking tensions, the only person threatening war here, is putin. he has surrounded ukraine on three sides with one of the largest military deployments we have seen anywhere in the world since the end of the second world war. he is doing everything possible to convince us that he is about to launch an all-out invasion of ukraine. so the only choice we have is to either try to deter it by helping ukraine or to invite it by not helping ukraine. it is in our national interest, it has been since the end of the second world war, to try to prevent dictators from changing borders with tanks. that would be an absolute catastrophe, not just for ukraine but for the security of europe and the trans-atlantic community that the united states has helped to
the united states and nato must not play into this strategy. are you at all concerned, sir, that the biden administration's current strategy could further provoke putin? >> absolutely not. i work very closely with congresswoman jayapal and congresswoman lee. i don't agree with them here. the only person provoking tensions, the only person threatening war here, is putin. he has surrounded ukraine on three sides with one of the largest military deployments we have seen anywhere in the world...
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when we talk to our that i toe nato allies and the european union, we all take it very seriously. no one totally understands what mr. putin's intentions are here. but we don't want to underestimate what he may do. the one thing that the ukranians did remind us and sometimes we forget, they have been at war with russia since 2014. the russians still occupy territory in crimea and they have been fighting a war off and on with the russians. and talking to everyday ukranian citizens, they seem resolute, but they have no intention of going back to the days under the soviet union. they have tasted freedom and they want to continue moving towards a more democratic society and they are ready to fight for that. >> so that is what you were hearing from ukranian citizens. what are the officials telling you, how are they preparing? >> they are getting ready and reinforcing what potentially could be strike lines, but also developing civilian defense sources where they would have a secondary defense force ready to go and then they would have an equivalent of reserve force that would be ready to
when we talk to our that i toe nato allies and the european union, we all take it very seriously. no one totally understands what mr. putin's intentions are here. but we don't want to underestimate what he may do. the one thing that the ukranians did remind us and sometimes we forget, they have been at war with russia since 2014. the russians still occupy territory in crimea and they have been fighting a war off and on with the russians. and talking to everyday ukranian citizens, they seem...
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if nato and the west are not behind ukraine, ukraine could crumble. tell me how that effort, that pressure campaign on ukraine at the time weakened the country to the point that it continues to be as vulnerable as it is to russian invasion without u.s. help? >> absolutely, ali. back when this started in 2018, ukraine was already at war with russia. they have been at war since 2014. so the pressure that russia was putting on by taking over crimea and by, you know, by fighting in domas, it was putting a lot of pressure. so all the help that incoming president zelensky needed was from the united states, all the help he could get. and trump basically understood that. and when zelensky and his administration declined to open up an investigation on to joe biden, he basically stopped all military aide, actually, all aide, that was the message i was told to give to sergey shafer, that all aide would be stopped if they didn't announce an investigation into joe biden and hunter biden. >> when you sent that information, how did that happen? did you meet with him
if nato and the west are not behind ukraine, ukraine could crumble. tell me how that effort, that pressure campaign on ukraine at the time weakened the country to the point that it continues to be as vulnerable as it is to russian invasion without u.s. help? >> absolutely, ali. back when this started in 2018, ukraine was already at war with russia. they have been at war since 2014. so the pressure that russia was putting on by taking over crimea and by, you know, by fighting in domas, it...
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ukraine is not in nato. it's been neutral since it became independent from the soviet union in 1981. it thinks of its country that wants peace. it's formally aligned with nobody. russian president has created a sense in ukraine for a desire to be in nato, because the ukrainians like everybody else in the region can see, i you're in nato, you're safer. you're safer from the rupgs aggression. we're in a strange position whereby whereby everybody keeps say, why does everybody keep joining nato. because everybody's afraid of russia. ukraine is consolidating now into a kind of, i wouldn't say anti-russian, but a national position where they talk about russia as an enemy, which was really not true ever before in ukrainian history, the activities of putin have forced ukraine into a more desire to be part of the west for the sake of peace and prosperity. >> anne, thank you for your insights. i recommend that people read your works on this because you have remarkable firsthand insight on how things have gone in easte
ukraine is not in nato. it's been neutral since it became independent from the soviet union in 1981. it thinks of its country that wants peace. it's formally aligned with nobody. russian president has created a sense in ukraine for a desire to be in nato, because the ukrainians like everybody else in the region can see, i you're in nato, you're safer. you're safer from the rupgs aggression. we're in a strange position whereby whereby everybody keeps say, why does everybody keep joining nato....
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military concludes that an invasion could take place at any moment they've been talking about what nato might do to step things down. the u.s. has made an offer, but there is a discussion ongoing. and at the u.s. city council meeting, while russia has mocked the u.s. decision to call for it, may be a venue to get things moving on the diplomatic front. >> while we have these movements on either side, ukraine's president zelensky essentially has repeatedly criticized the west who suggest that war is imminent. let's listen to what he told matt bradley yesterday. >> how are you preparing for what everyone describing, except the ukrainian government, as an imminent attack. >> how we should act? we have no panic. we have a powerful army. >> is this a tactic to show strength in this standoff with putin? >> i think he has no choice. he has got to demonstrate he's prepared to defend himself, but not afraid. this is a tough position for president zelensky to be in. the u.s. and our allies haven't done enough to give enough support. we're sending weapons now, but we should have sent a lot more ear
military concludes that an invasion could take place at any moment they've been talking about what nato might do to step things down. the u.s. has made an offer, but there is a discussion ongoing. and at the u.s. city council meeting, while russia has mocked the u.s. decision to call for it, may be a venue to get things moving on the diplomatic front. >> while we have these movements on either side, ukraine's president zelensky essentially has repeatedly criticized the west who suggest...
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he hedges by saying nato troops need not and should not fight for ukraine. still i was left with this question. have we learned nothing from the last 20 years of american foreign policy after decades of disaster in afghanistan and iraq, the only one who is have benefitted from the $14 trillion we spent there seem to be the private contractors. not to mention our efforts in iraq have not been much more encouraging. in fact it's hard to point to any u.s. military intervention in the last 20 years where our involvement hasn't made things worse. meanwhile, america's support for anti-democratic countries like egypt and saudi arabia, including the war in yemen, hardly makes the case that u.s. foreign policy has done much to advance freedom around the world. but beyond the crisis with russia and ukraine, stevens is insuffer bli vague over what would it could take to stand up for the free world. he says the u.s. must restore the concept of the free world, the large idea that the world's democracies are bound by shared and foundational commitments to human freedom an
he hedges by saying nato troops need not and should not fight for ukraine. still i was left with this question. have we learned nothing from the last 20 years of american foreign policy after decades of disaster in afghanistan and iraq, the only one who is have benefitted from the $14 trillion we spent there seem to be the private contractors. not to mention our efforts in iraq have not been much more encouraging. in fact it's hard to point to any u.s. military intervention in the last 20 years...
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they want to be part of nato. they want to have a western focus, and that is not what president putin wants to see happening. so, his efforts are -- are, i think, very -- he is poised to go to war. he is angling to go to war, and frankly, with 125,000 troops in belarus and at ukraine's border, i mean, this is as close to an act of war as you get without firing a missile. >> i do want to ask you about the president's agenda here at home, specifically build back better. you of course are co-chair of the women's caucus. this week you said in a statement, quote, expand on that if you would specifically -- i'm sorry, jumped ahead -- you said women across the country are continuing to struggle because our investments in child care and universal pre-k, paid family and medical leave, home and community-based care are woefully inadequate and we're struggling to address critical maternal health disparities. what is the risk if congress does nothing? >> we have right now 1.3 million women who have left the workforce. it's th
they want to be part of nato. they want to have a western focus, and that is not what president putin wants to see happening. so, his efforts are -- are, i think, very -- he is poised to go to war. he is angling to go to war, and frankly, with 125,000 troops in belarus and at ukraine's border, i mean, this is as close to an act of war as you get without firing a missile. >> i do want to ask you about the president's agenda here at home, specifically build back better. you of course are...
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though he hedges and says nato need not fight for ukraine. left with question, have we learned nothing from last years in american foreign policy? only ones benefitted from $14 trillion spent in afghanistan and iraq seem to be the private contractors. and iraq, it's not encouraging, hard to point to any u.s. military intervention where our involvement hasn't made things worse. and support for antidemocratic countries like egypt and support for the war in yemen can't make the case for advancing freedom around the world. beyond this crisis, stevens is insufferably vague what it would take. says the u.s. must quote restore the concept of the free world, larger idea that the world's democracies are bound by shared and foundational commitments to human freedom and dignity. sounds great, but shouldn't we first shore up our own foundational commitments to human freedom and dignity here in the united states? look at horror show of recent headlines in the country. when half is intent on pushing the big lie, making it harder to vote, rejecting legitima
though he hedges and says nato need not fight for ukraine. left with question, have we learned nothing from last years in american foreign policy? only ones benefitted from $14 trillion spent in afghanistan and iraq seem to be the private contractors. and iraq, it's not encouraging, hard to point to any u.s. military intervention where our involvement hasn't made things worse. and support for antidemocratic countries like egypt and support for the war in yemen can't make the case for advancing...
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among its nato allies. what doesn't help is you have members of the gop saying why are we supporting ukraine? you have members of the gop saying they're pro-authoritarianism and pro-russia's expansion and the united states shouldn't have a role in this. the same energy that we're seeing from these republican members supporting russia's move here i think, one can be defined as a legacy of trump and how he off and onned over putin, but number two, highlights what they're using in the united states. i think biden needs to continue supporting ukraine. backing down only signals a weakness in the future of democracy globally. >> thank you both for being with us. >>> next, tragic week for law enforcement officers across the country. it raises new questions about reforming to policing and criminal justice. we'll be right back. picoling a picoling a criminal justice and baja chipotle sauce. it's three great things together. wait! who else is known for nailing threes? hmm. can't think of anyone! subway keeps refreshi
among its nato allies. what doesn't help is you have members of the gop saying why are we supporting ukraine? you have members of the gop saying they're pro-authoritarianism and pro-russia's expansion and the united states shouldn't have a role in this. the same energy that we're seeing from these republican members supporting russia's move here i think, one can be defined as a legacy of trump and how he off and onned over putin, but number two, highlights what they're using in the united...
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they sent those proposals, one from the united states and one from nato last week, and if you read the tea leaves, you know, foreign minister lavrov, for instance, the russian foreign minister said there was a -- i'm paraphrasing -- i think he said there was a grain of rationality in one of those. that suggests that they're studying the proposals and there may be still an opportunity for diplomacy. >> so, i think it's interesting, because i was speaking to nina khrushcheva and she said the united states doesn't fully understand how putin operates, who he is, what his motives and intent are, what he feeds off of. you write in the "washington post" that putin believes that the west unfairly dictated the terms of peace at the cold war's end. in putin's view, the west imposed liberal restructuring inside russia, compelled moscow to sign lopsided arms control treaties, expanding nato with no regard for russia's interests, and the greatest sin of all, divided the slavic peoples of the soviet union into separate countries. this speaks a bit too what nina khrushcheva is arguing as well. can yo
they sent those proposals, one from the united states and one from nato last week, and if you read the tea leaves, you know, foreign minister lavrov, for instance, the russian foreign minister said there was a -- i'm paraphrasing -- i think he said there was a grain of rationality in one of those. that suggests that they're studying the proposals and there may be still an opportunity for diplomacy. >> so, i think it's interesting, because i was speaking to nina khrushcheva and she said...
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that he does need to show force because that's the only way to prevent russia from being taken over by nato, by western forces, and so -- and i do think that diplomatic solution is possible, still possible, but i also think that probably toning down of rhetoric, of -- and especially giving dates when the invasion happens, because now has passed some, which doesn't really -- is not a very good look for the west and for the united states. >> nina khrushcheva, your writings and studies on this are fascinating, i would love if you come back and speak to us. >> absolutely, thank you very much. >> as the situation is developing. we know it will. it's great to talk to you this hour. thank you. >> thank you. >>> banning the teaching of a book that depicts the horrors of the holocaust because of its graphic depiction. what prompted one school board's decision, and how far this effort could go. we'll be right back. sion, and hs effort could go. effort could go. we'll be right back.ngredients. perfectly ripe, hand-scooped hass avocados and a touch of sea salt. it's like a double double for your tasteb
that he does need to show force because that's the only way to prevent russia from being taken over by nato, by western forces, and so -- and i do think that diplomatic solution is possible, still possible, but i also think that probably toning down of rhetoric, of -- and especially giving dates when the invasion happens, because now has passed some, which doesn't really -- is not a very good look for the west and for the united states. >> nina khrushcheva, your writings and studies on...
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troops to eastern europe and nato countries in the near term, but adding that the number would not be a lot. the comments come after president biden warned there is a distinct possibility that russia could invade ukraine next month. joining me now is california congressman john garamendi. welcome, sir. it's awfully good to see you again and i know that you in particular are quite familiar with the situation in ukraine. in fact, you traveled there back in 2018 and you met with president zelensky. and apparently just last week you were part of that classified briefing as well on the situation there. >> right. >> so, ukraine's defense minister told parliament there are 130,000 russian troops along their borders. do you, sir, feel that an invasion is imminent? what do you think putin would possibly be waiting for? is there any chance that he backs down? >> well, i think the answer to that last question is really depending upon what the united states does. if we really impose or are willing to impose and not only threat but actually impose very serious sanctions on russia, for example, cut
troops to eastern europe and nato countries in the near term, but adding that the number would not be a lot. the comments come after president biden warned there is a distinct possibility that russia could invade ukraine next month. joining me now is california congressman john garamendi. welcome, sir. it's awfully good to see you again and i know that you in particular are quite familiar with the situation in ukraine. in fact, you traveled there back in 2018 and you met with president...
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my next guest, mary elise sarahi has closely examined the standoff over nato expansion. she did so in his latest inch, not 1 inch, america, russia and the making of post-cold war steal mate, and a historian and professor at johns hopkins university. since you tracked what led to the down fall of what could have been a promising u.s./russia partnership at the end of the cold war, i know you reflect on the latest developments, you know, 130,000 troops at ukrainian border, putin demanding nato stop its eastward expansion. where did this current conflict begin? >> in a sense, it began when the berlin wall came down in 1989, and of course president putin was in east germany as a young kgb officer. for most people that event was a cause for great joy. for him it was a catastrophe, and as he has famously said many times, the subsequent collapse of the soviet union, the state that he served loyally was the greatest geopolitical of the 21st century. there's a lot of competition for that title, the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century. the fact that the 30th anniversary of the
my next guest, mary elise sarahi has closely examined the standoff over nato expansion. she did so in his latest inch, not 1 inch, america, russia and the making of post-cold war steal mate, and a historian and professor at johns hopkins university. since you tracked what led to the down fall of what could have been a promising u.s./russia partnership at the end of the cold war, i know you reflect on the latest developments, you know, 130,000 troops at ukrainian border, putin demanding nato...
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troops to eastern europe and the nato countries in the near term. >> also new today, from the january 6th investigation, the house select committee issuing subpoenas to former white house spokesman judd deer as well as 14 so-called alternate electors who were allegedly part of a scheme in 2020 to admit fake slate of electoral votes for president trump across seven states won by joe biden. >>> the white house is publicly identifying one name on that list of who biden is considering to replace supreme court justice stephen breyer. nbc news confirming overnight, j. michelle childs, judge on the u.s. district court in south carolina as a potential candidate. the preferred pick of james clyburn, who played a key role in propelling biden's victory in 2020. i'll be speaking to clyburn about the vacancy. joining me now to success all of that, maya wiley, and harry litman, former deputy assistant attorney general. harry clerked for supreme court justices, thurgood marshall and anthony kennedy, and helped prepare judge bryer for his supreme court nomination. you know justice breyer, so what fac
troops to eastern europe and the nato countries in the near term. >> also new today, from the january 6th investigation, the house select committee issuing subpoenas to former white house spokesman judd deer as well as 14 so-called alternate electors who were allegedly part of a scheme in 2020 to admit fake slate of electoral votes for president trump across seven states won by joe biden. >>> the white house is publicly identifying one name on that list of who biden is...
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here's what nato looks like today. most of the countries in the middle, the warsaw countries are western-facing democratic nato allies. ukraine, as you can see, is not a nato member, but the fear is if russia invades ukraine there could be spill over into neighboring nato countries. last night on the edition of "the last word" i spoke to admiral james stavridis about what vladimir putin wants, rebuilding the old ussr and the union of soviet republics and he's going around former republic to former republic to include azerbaijan, armenia in this case ukraine, kazakhstan, all the stans and trying to put them back into russian sphere of influence. i don't think he's going to be successful with that overall nor should we let him particularly in the case of ukraine. >> joining me now is ian bremer, president and founder of the eurasia group with global economic and geopolitical risks. ian, a couple of things are happening here. joe biden and the americans are prepared for some kind of imminent invasion of ukraine by russia.
here's what nato looks like today. most of the countries in the middle, the warsaw countries are western-facing democratic nato allies. ukraine, as you can see, is not a nato member, but the fear is if russia invades ukraine there could be spill over into neighboring nato countries. last night on the edition of "the last word" i spoke to admiral james stavridis about what vladimir putin wants, rebuilding the old ussr and the union of soviet republics and he's going around former...
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i want to put up nato while there was soviet union versus nato now. his complaint is you've made them nato countries so i've got american backed countries on my border now entirely. why then, after all that, is ukraine the one that he won't let go of? >> look, i'm not sure that you're right saying that we took these countries. they rushed to nato because they had an experience, they have been occupied by soviet troops for more than four decades. it's a fear of russian invasion, and it is a real fear, the republic of georgia could confirm and to push baltic states into nato. that is why ukraine and georgia would like to move to nato. but all of the hoopla about nato is too close to russian borders. show the map. astonia is much closer to st. petersburg than ukraine. it is not flying time of american missiles to russia, it is about flying time of ideas of the free world. putin knows that free independent sovereign democratic prosperous ukraine is the biggest threat to his dictatorship in russia because it will have the same domino effect as polynesian d
i want to put up nato while there was soviet union versus nato now. his complaint is you've made them nato countries so i've got american backed countries on my border now entirely. why then, after all that, is ukraine the one that he won't let go of? >> look, i'm not sure that you're right saying that we took these countries. they rushed to nato because they had an experience, they have been occupied by soviet troops for more than four decades. it's a fear of russian invasion, and it is...
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and other nato allies can fill in the gaps here? >> that's the attempt. there's a lot of work going on right now to identify additional sources of natural gas that can go to europe, in the event that president putin makes a mistake of cutting them off. you have to remember the natural gas issue is both ways, that is president putin only has one main source of his economy, of funding his economy, that's hydrocarbon sales. if he seemed to be a very unreliable supplier, that is if he cuts off europe or cuts off other nations from supply of gas, no one's going to buy his gas. everybody's going to look for other sources of gas and there are other sources of gas that are trying to surge right now in this short term to make up for any possible cutoffs but also long-term substitution that the europeans are already started to do, to reduce that reliance on russian gas. >> ambassador william taylor, you've given us a lot to consider. always learn something when you come on. thank you so much. >> thank you. >>> still to come, they falsely claimed donald trump won th
and other nato allies can fill in the gaps here? >> that's the attempt. there's a lot of work going on right now to identify additional sources of natural gas that can go to europe, in the event that president putin makes a mistake of cutting them off. you have to remember the natural gas issue is both ways, that is president putin only has one main source of his economy, of funding his economy, that's hydrocarbon sales. if he seemed to be a very unreliable supplier, that is if he cuts...
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they only wanted to discuss the point about nato. the request about nato. the tricky thing here is, the thing we have to do each if we buy time with diplomacy which is effectively what they're trying to do and for the russians what they have on their side, the problem is when you have that much military on the border and beavering up the defenses on the other side, on the ukrainian side, any one gunshot could light the whole thing on fire and even if by accident and that's what we have to try to avoid and we have to offer compelling carrots, and tougher sticks to change president putin's calculation. >> i think you said you're generally pro sanction and congresswoman pramila jayapal says she would not look at sanction, and i think people are still haunted by afghanistan, haunted by that past, what do you think of that approach? >> we can't promise to put anything like boots on the ground, right? that is certainly something that is not going to go well with the american public. and by the way, i don't think that that is something that the u.s. government is
they only wanted to discuss the point about nato. the request about nato. the tricky thing here is, the thing we have to do each if we buy time with diplomacy which is effectively what they're trying to do and for the russians what they have on their side, the problem is when you have that much military on the border and beavering up the defenses on the other side, on the ukrainian side, any one gunshot could light the whole thing on fire and even if by accident and that's what we have to try...
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and nato would be unacceptable. as for ukraine, it reports its president is not happy with the biden administration after the administrations emits warnings about an attack, saying that such warnings needlessly spread alarm. with that, let's bring in our lead off guests on this friday, night katie bennett, justice department reporter for the new york times, cynthia for the civil rights division of the justice department, on rick for a secretary of state of public despondency in public affairs in the obama administration. and former managing editor of time magazine. thank you for joining me this evening. katie, what more do we know about how this trump electors plan was supposed to work, and who in the former president circle might have been involved in the plan? >> so the committee is already covering quite a bit of information about the plan. much of it is public. it seems as though it began in november, basically simultaneously with the election, almost. where there was a suggestion that if the results were not go
and nato would be unacceptable. as for ukraine, it reports its president is not happy with the biden administration after the administrations emits warnings about an attack, saying that such warnings needlessly spread alarm. with that, let's bring in our lead off guests on this friday, night katie bennett, justice department reporter for the new york times, cynthia for the civil rights division of the justice department, on rick for a secretary of state of public despondency in public affairs...
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nato? >> well there are a lot of countries that will have to be nato, because so many countries have -- rolled into them. going back to the cold war, russian tanks rolled into hungry, it rolled into the czech republic. more recently, it rolled into georgia. rolled into ukraine, in 2014. if i were in eastern europe, i'd certainly like that article five guarantee. one thing i would command readers google, nato treaty. you can read it in about ten minutes. it's only 14 articles, maybe our 30 sentences long. you correctly point out article five in attack on one, is in tack on all. only time that article five is energized me is during 9/11. when nato jets flew over our cities, after the attack on 9/11. so, all of these nations would like to be part of nato, they are not. where do we end up with ukraine, ali, there are a nato partner. they have deployed with, us ukrainian troops deployed -- they have been with us at sea, they've been a very close partner, but not quite a member of the alliance, a
nato? >> well there are a lot of countries that will have to be nato, because so many countries have -- rolled into them. going back to the cold war, russian tanks rolled into hungry, it rolled into the czech republic. more recently, it rolled into georgia. rolled into ukraine, in 2014. if i were in eastern europe, i'd certainly like that article five guarantee. one thing i would command readers google, nato treaty. you can read it in about ten minutes. it's only 14 articles, maybe our 30...
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and the nato countries in the near term. i know it is still in the middle of the night there, perhaps early morning and russia, but do you think this will, in any way, or change any of the dynamics or the calculation, that we are seeing right now? >> well, thank you. first of all, i would say that i could in fact provoke mr. putin in some way. the russians have been very clear that they don't like to be bullied. mr. putin has made clear that russian troops are on russian territory and he does not believe that they do need to pull back. in many regards, mr. putin has won a small victory already. because the world is now paying attention. everyone wants to speak to vladimir putin. a shot at diplomacy -- everybody wants to speak to russia and find out what mr. putin intends to do. so, it is very difficult at this particular juncture to really pin down what the russians next move will be. >> i'm curious whether you see it as well. has putin made it costly for nato to, essentially, accept, not just ukraine, but any country in eas
and the nato countries in the near term. i know it is still in the middle of the night there, perhaps early morning and russia, but do you think this will, in any way, or change any of the dynamics or the calculation, that we are seeing right now? >> well, thank you. first of all, i would say that i could in fact provoke mr. putin in some way. the russians have been very clear that they don't like to be bullied. mr. putin has made clear that russian troops are on russian territory and he...
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if ukraine is not in nato, what is nato's role in the current crisis? for more on that, we turn to a retired u.s. navy admiral and former nato supreme allied commander, james -- admiral, it is good to see you. thank you for being with us. for those in our audience who don't have their nato pact with them, their handbook, there is something that we often refer to called article five in nato which is the thing that says that any nato country that is attacked, all the other nato countries will come to their defense. how is that different when it applies to ukraine, which wants to be in nato but is not a member of nato? >> well, there are a lot of countries that would love to be a nato because so many countries have russian tanks roll into them. going back to the cold war, russian tanks rolled into congress. they rolled into the czech republic. more recently, they rolled into georgia. they world into ukraine in 2014. if i were and eastern europe, i would certainly like that article five guarantee. one thing i would recommend leaders -- readers google -- you
if ukraine is not in nato, what is nato's role in the current crisis? for more on that, we turn to a retired u.s. navy admiral and former nato supreme allied commander, james -- admiral, it is good to see you. thank you for being with us. for those in our audience who don't have their nato pact with them, their handbook, there is something that we often refer to called article five in nato which is the thing that says that any nato country that is attacked, all the other nato countries will...
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nato's been divided in recent years. the west has been divided. this could bring us together around a shared objective. economically, it could do great damage to the russian economy and to the russian people, and militarily, as ben also suggested, as soon as body bags start arriving back on to russian territory, this could have a really serious impact on the russian psyche and ultimately undermine vladimir putin. so while in the near term, i would project this is really bad news for the west and of course especially bad news for ukraine, in the medium term, perhaps, this is a catalyst to bring us back together around shared values and undo some of that damage of donald trump and his enablers. >> ben rhodes and miles taylor, thank you so much for spending time with us on this today. >>> when we come back, the far-right fever swamps of florida where even the state's top health official can't or won't say whether coronavirus vaccines really work. that story after a quick break. vaccines really work that story after a quickre bak what happens when we
nato's been divided in recent years. the west has been divided. this could bring us together around a shared objective. economically, it could do great damage to the russian economy and to the russian people, and militarily, as ben also suggested, as soon as body bags start arriving back on to russian territory, this could have a really serious impact on the russian psyche and ultimately undermine vladimir putin. so while in the near term, i would project this is really bad news for the west...
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or nato caves in and gives him the reassurances he has demanded. i don't think that's going to happen. so we're in a period of complexity and great danger. >> richard engel, remarks like this whenever you see top military leaders speaking like this, there's a domestic audience but probably a big foreign audience too. how would these remarks be received in ukraine and potentially in russia? >> reporter: so as general mccaffrey said, it is very complex right now. and president zelensky, who was an actor before he got this job, he was a comedian and he became famous playing a president on television. now he's trying to play it cool. he was on the stage today briefing foreign reporters. he has not been speaking publicly very often over the last several days. he was trying to show his best poker face, that he's not rattled, that his country is not fazed in any way. he accused the west, accused the united states, accused nato of sowing panic. he said it was wrong that the united states ordered the evacuation and other governments ordered the evacuation o
or nato caves in and gives him the reassurances he has demanded. i don't think that's going to happen. so we're in a period of complexity and great danger. >> richard engel, remarks like this whenever you see top military leaders speaking like this, there's a domestic audience but probably a big foreign audience too. how would these remarks be received in ukraine and potentially in russia? >> reporter: so as general mccaffrey said, it is very complex right now. and president...
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and nato countries. so president zelensky was not just telling russia to back off but telling the west to back off. he had words for the western press, saying i know my country better and i know this situation better than foreign diplomats and foreign agencies and politicians, and he was saying over and over and over again in response to what were variations of the same question from the western media, which is how can you be so relaxed with such a large army surrounding your country? he said, you know, we have been at war for the past eight years and this is not new. >> he doesn't want a self fulfilling prophecy either. we are looking at the disconnect between what the u.s. is saying and the west is saying and mostly the u.s., because there's wiggle room with what france is saying, and what the president of ukraine is currently saying and how ukrainians are acting at the capitol, so how do you account for that? >> well, zelensky is the one that can offer a reduction in nato integration. the united state
and nato countries. so president zelensky was not just telling russia to back off but telling the west to back off. he had words for the western press, saying i know my country better and i know this situation better than foreign diplomats and foreign agencies and politicians, and he was saying over and over and over again in response to what were variations of the same question from the western media, which is how can you be so relaxed with such a large army surrounding your country? he said,...
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should the nato force be activated by nato. this putting our forces on a shorter string enables us to get there in a shorter period of time. and, again, i think that provides reassurance to nato that we're ready to live up to our commitments. in terms of what putin thinks and the way he feels about things, again, it's hard to predict. we take those kinds of things into consideration but, again, if you look at the forces that he has moved into the region and that he continues to move into the region, you know, there was no provocation that caused him to move those forces. so, you know, we'll continue to listen to what he says and watch what he does. chairman. >> i would echo all of that. with respect to the ptdo forces, for 20 years iraq, afghanistan, et cetera, we've announced when forces are rotating, et cetera. we attempt to be transparent with you and with congress and the american people on the use and deployment of military forces. we alerted based on the direction from the president and the secretary of defense, we increa
should the nato force be activated by nato. this putting our forces on a shorter string enables us to get there in a shorter period of time. and, again, i think that provides reassurance to nato that we're ready to live up to our commitments. in terms of what putin thinks and the way he feels about things, again, it's hard to predict. we take those kinds of things into consideration but, again, if you look at the forces that he has moved into the region and that he continues to move into the...
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nato is not going to happen. and so, putin is really facing the decision between whether he wants to go to war or whether he wants to try and negotiate. some kind of revisions that relate to russian security. that's a good decision. but there's no question that when we see what's happening in on the ground and the build ups taking place in belarus, as well as other areas along the border, it is wise to take the position that putin may very well invade. and that we have to be prepared for that. that should be true, not just for the united states and nato, but for the ukraine as well. >> if you were sitting in one or two of the chairs you used to occupy, secretary of defense, white house chief of staff and you saw this kind of escalation, would you tell the president he's got no alternative? how does he back down when he's amassed this kind of a force on three sides of ukraine? >> well, this is a moment when the united states and our allies have to make clear to putin that he's going to pay a price. look, putin, as
nato is not going to happen. and so, putin is really facing the decision between whether he wants to go to war or whether he wants to try and negotiate. some kind of revisions that relate to russian security. that's a good decision. but there's no question that when we see what's happening in on the ground and the build ups taking place in belarus, as well as other areas along the border, it is wise to take the position that putin may very well invade. and that we have to be prepared for that....
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and slamming the western response saying nato's expansion and weapons deployment is unacceptable.
and slamming the western response saying nato's expansion and weapons deployment is unacceptable.
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what it is losing is it is drawing nato closer to its borders and it is consolidating nato, the general says cyber attack could trigger article 5 which is the self-defense -- article 5 could kick in and allies could response with their own nato attack. while nato never forces any country to join that if sweden and finland both are not far from russia, finland in particular wanted to join nato, it would be a quick process. >> ambassador mcfaul, tell us what sense you have where things stand right now? >> i think we are in a wait and see mode. the russians are studying the proposals that the biden administration sent and nato sent, and a phone call president biden had with president macron, studying, that's the word they used. that's the first inclining of words from vladimir putin that was a read out of the call was impersonally, he has not spoken about this crisis or ukraine for about a month and everything depends on him. like wise, foreign minister lavrov says if i am paraphrasing it right is there is a grain in the proposal. both in the read-out of the putin's call and lavrov today s
what it is losing is it is drawing nato closer to its borders and it is consolidating nato, the general says cyber attack could trigger article 5 which is the self-defense -- article 5 could kick in and allies could response with their own nato attack. while nato never forces any country to join that if sweden and finland both are not far from russia, finland in particular wanted to join nato, it would be a quick process. >> ambassador mcfaul, tell us what sense you have where things...
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while it might seem to make sense that putin doesn't want nato missiles in his backyard, nato has made it very clear, they are not for attacking russia. they're there for protecting other countries from russia. after all, let me remind you, russia is the one that invaded georgia in 2008, invaded crimea in 2014, and is on the verge of invaing ukraine at this very moment. now, it is true that ukraine used to be part of the soviet union and the feeling from putin is that russia should be allowed to get back what used to be theirs. but here's the truth. a lot has changed since 1991. ukraine has been independent for more than 30 years. they have had plenty of changes. they have had plenty of time to change their mind and side with russia, including when they had a pro-russian president eight years ago and then launched a violent nationwide protest because they wanted to kick him out. in every election since they've picked candidates more aligned with the west than moscow. in other words, forget what putin says, forget what tucker carlson is telling you. the ukrainian people have made their
while it might seem to make sense that putin doesn't want nato missiles in his backyard, nato has made it very clear, they are not for attacking russia. they're there for protecting other countries from russia. after all, let me remind you, russia is the one that invaded georgia in 2008, invaded crimea in 2014, and is on the verge of invaing ukraine at this very moment. now, it is true that ukraine used to be part of the soviet union and the feeling from putin is that russia should be allowed...